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Jeff Verge's avatar

Gorgeous article. One could also refer to map making to account for people's blind spots. Just as a person can be hypnotized to be blind to what's right in front of their nose (Orwell reference....:), the same person can construct (or have handed to them) a map of the world that simply doesn't include the invisible man. Try as they might, they scour their map upside down and inside out and the invisible man isn't in it, therefore the invisible man does not exist.

I note too that several comments seem to project exactly what you said, obliviously. One scoots right past the invisible man to want to argue about the talking points that make up their map. The other implores you to a) imagine horrible things that never happened, to b) put that into your map, and c) then proceed to reason from those imagined things that didn't happen. QED!

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L.P. Koch's avatar

Well said, and I like the map analogy. As for the commenters, sigh.

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__browsing's avatar

Instead of sighing you could maybe answer the question?

https://luctalks.substack.com/p/douglas-murray-and-the-hypnotized/comment/111443026

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__browsing's avatar

Look... I'm sorry if this is "regurgitating zionist talking points", or whatever, but what exactly do you want Israel to do in this situation instead?

If your position is that the troubles of distant countries are none of our beeswax and we shouldn't care one way or another, I suppose I can't argue you out of your priorities, but there was no realistic way to conduct a war against Hamas that wasn't going to inflict civilian casualties, and every alternative (including the OSS or returning to the previous status quo) was going to involve some other variant of human rights violation. What do you want from them here?

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Gilgamech's avatar

Don’t take peoples land by force and terror. Pretty simple. Don’t start a genocide, because once you start it’s more or less impossible to stop.

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__browsing's avatar

At what point in history are we beginning our evaluation of "not taking people's land by force and terror"? Under the Ottoman Surgun system, for example? Or how about the Mizrahim expelled from Arab countries during the 60s and 70s?

Also, absent access to a time machine, this isn't answering the question: What you do actually want Israel to do, here and now?

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Gilgamech's avatar

What a silly whataboutism on your part. You come across as deeply unserious.

You got the correct answer to your question. Maybe you should have asked a different question if you intended a different question.

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__browsing's avatar

No, I'm sorry, if your argument is that states which engage in ethnic cleansing need to delete themselves from history, why isn't most every other arab nation in the region obliged to do so? Given that the Arab League's declaration of war back in '48 was explicitly genocidal, and every jewish land purchase prior to this was legal under both the British and the Ottomans?

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Adam Brown's avatar

The time machine thing is a more than valid point.

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Gilgamech's avatar

The Time Machine is a different question and so it has a different answer.

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Anglo Barbarian ⚡️'s avatar

Don’t take peoples land by force and terror… whilst involving yourself in everybody else’s internal politics.

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__browsing's avatar

There are many, many Israeli nationalists that despair of the views of their liberal cousins oversea, so I think collusion here gets overstated. Israeli jews on the average were very pro-Trump, for example.

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Anglo Barbarian ⚡️'s avatar

Where are the Jewish groups lobbying against mass immigration and degeneracy throughout Europe?

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Anglo Barbarian ⚡️'s avatar

Collusion doesn’t have to be explicit.

We have a collection of Jews raping different sets of people using different ideological belief systems.

Whilst Palestinians cannot be blamed for what is happening to them, Europeans, and Anglos, are akin to a group of lobotomised monkeys for allowing Jews to wield so much influence in their nations.

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__browsing's avatar

Palestinians can absolutely be blamed for nearly all of what happened to them post-Nakba, and they can also be blamed for the civil wars and insurrections they've launched in every other country they've moved to in large numbers.

https://luctalks.substack.com/p/douglas-murray-and-the-hypnotized/comment/111487374

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Stefano's avatar

Do consider looking into the truth and reconciliation commission created after the Rwanda genocide as a potential way out of the current impasse.

Anytime we get into the weeds of the issues, the historical dimensions, the religious artifacts, etc, there's no way out.

If instead we decide to be honest and seek to find a way to redress and resolve the mess, then there are a few examples of the direction of travel.

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Michael Kowalik's avatar

It seems you are asking for a reason why Israel should not be allowed to commit the Holocaust. This is a valid question and I believe i have a good answer to this challenge, but I first need to clarify that you understand what you are asking. The Aryan Nazis asked the same question and they received no persuasive objections.

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__browsing's avatar

I don't recall that 700,000 Palestinians were ever herded into gas chambers, so this seems like a hystrionic comparison?

Or, I don't know, do you think killing ~2% of the population of the Gaza strip as a side-effect of going after Hamas militants (themselves a non-trivial % of the population), is equivalent to genocide?

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Adam Brown's avatar

I would disengage from these people. Anyone who compares the current war to the Holocaust is NEVER going to be convinced of anything else.

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Michael Kowalik's avatar

If over the last two years the roles of Israel and Palestine were reversed, then the situation would, without hesitation, be characterised as the Holocaust, and so it must be called the Holocaust irrespective of roles. By applying the standard of the perpetrator, the state of Israel is committing the Holocaust. I do not debate with Holocaust deniers.

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__browsing's avatar

Okay, fine, feel free not to debate me. But I have to inform you that not every war is automatically equivalent to a holocaust.

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Zpycer's avatar

I do not regard Elon Musk as a “genius” as he is touted to be, but this is the smartest thing I have ever heard him say:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Zlfs2C5Er8U?si=ENl6fqI1y0N-DFUv

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__browsing's avatar

What 'conspicuous acts of kindness' do you think should be going on, precisely? Israel already supplies large amounts of essentially everything that Gazans need to stay alive (food, fuel, water, electricity), and used to have a work exchange program until it became clear this was a conduit for suicide attacks and intel-gathering by Hamas.

There might well be more nuanced ways to go about rewarding good behaviour and disincentivising bad, but those would require actually controlling the territory first.

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Diamond Boy's avatar

MA you are correct, no alternative, 80 years of futility, so expulsion is warranted and ultimately it will result in peace.

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__browsing's avatar

Expulsion would itself involve some complex political tradeoffs, so I think the specifics need consideration. There’s an author you might want to follow here: https://nonzionism.com/p/better-in-that-out

With that said, it's very possible that european countries are going to be facing a similar quandary in the not-so-distant future, so I'd to interested to see if the Israelis can work out a palatable solution here.

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Richard Nichols's avatar

Outstanding article. Thanks!

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L.P. Koch's avatar

Thank you!

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Richard Nichols's avatar

Incidentally LP, I wrote a novel exploring this exact theme and the way this mentality is destroying the world as we know it. Happy to send you a free copy

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Causes-Richard-Nichols-ebook/dp/B0893M6PQF/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=lost+causes+richard+nichols&qid=1618187048&sr=8-1

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Bryan Winchell's avatar

Excellent article! First, thanks for introducing me to that fascinating fact about hypnosis. It's a GREAT metaphor for what's happening with the Murrays of the world.

And yes, as someone who has been through some of my own psychological deaths and rebirths, you're absolutely right in that section about how challenging that is, and why so many resist the Process. You're writing that actually opened my heart more to the Murrays of the world; of course, not because their illusion is correct, but because it helps me remember that Process and puts me into his shoes more.

I wrote an article in an online community about the Murray-Smith "debate," and the people I most hoped would hear it were completely unable to understand my perspective. Your article helps illuminate why this may be.

Last, even though it was less than an hour ago that I found this article by clicking on a link from another writer who I subscribe to, I honestly can't remember who that was! Maybe John Carter? Not sure. Regardless, I'm going to subscribe to yours and have a lookaround. If this is the kind and quality of the stuff you're writing about, keep up the great work!

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Barbara With's avatar

Great Article. Thank you. Censoring like Murray did using deflection was so no conversation can take place to dispel the propaganda: “Israel—Brave Innocents! Palestinians —Hamas terrorists! It’s not a genocide! It’s self defense! And if you don’t agree you’re an anti-semite and we won’t even speak to you!”

It’s not self defense anymore, it's the last bastion of far-right Bebe neocons absolutely refusing to allow discussion of peaceful alternatives and acknowledge Israel’s part in fueling the terror. The very reason Murray couldn't take one step towards an actual conversation. Because people with common sense like Dave and me and Joe and Tucker and Candace and the rest of us "anti-semites" have been No More War for decades. Suddenly we’re being labeled as “haters” as an excuse so those perpetrating the tyranny don't have to discuss the fact that they are terrorizing innocent Palestinian women and children. Because then what?

Murray would have to come face to face with the fact that his neocon rhetoric is the very evil he’s claiming we need protection from. He could be outed as a psychopath himself ala Madelaine Albright, who once said the Iraqi war was worth the 500,000 children we murdered. I have no idea if Murray ever said such a thing but he is cut from the same flimsy narcissistic cloth as Albright. He could be outed as a psychopath himself, smugly laughing off the death of Palestinian women and children, journalists, aid workers and doctors like the Israel soldiers who hang the mu***red children's toys from their tanks.

What if Israel and the US suddenly came to their senses and said, "No more war" and pulled the plug on the arms? The power we can wield to make peace. But it appears Israel would rather Hannibal Directive (destroy the hostages to keep the war going and keep blaming the Palestinians) than save their own people or work together for peace.

What to do about the terrorists like Bebe and Hamas? This is the $1M Question

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David Pawley's avatar

Hamas is legally and morally responsible for all the civilian deaths and injuries in Gaza. This is a fact that Hamas supporters consistently, conveniently gloss over.

Gaza was free by any reasonable standard from 2005 when Israel disengaged and removed all Israelis from the Gaza Strip. Hamas took control in 2007 and spent the next 16 years stealing aid money and using it to fund terrorist attacks on Israel.

Hamas are enemies of humanity, humani hostis generis, and must be exterminated.

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Barbara With's avatar

And in the exact same manor, Israel is responsible for all the civilian deaths that their and our bombs killed using the excuse that they "had to be killed" because, you know, HAMAS. nope. If you support killing Palestinian kids by Israelis under the excuse of Hamas, the surely you must support Hamas killing Israeli kids under the moniker of ADF, another terrorist organization. And if you think Hamas "has to be exterminated" but not ADF then you yourself are a terrorist But then I guess we knew that by your comments.

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David Pawley's avatar

Murray did not censor anything. Smith is a know-nothing fuckwit who tried to deflect when challenged at all.

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Barbara With's avatar

Here folks is the living example of what I'm talking about. Use the language of a 10-yer-old bully to try and make an indefensible argument of the slaughter of kids through projection. Sad for you.

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David Pawley's avatar

No, fuckwit is a perfectly appropriate adjective.

Also, ten-year old bullies don’t call people fuckwits in order to bully them. You need to get out more.

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On the Kaministiquia's avatar

Smith clearly knows more than Murray and by the quality of your response and apparent understanding far more than you as well. The only deflection that happened in the debate was by Murray, which is why he so obviously lost.

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David Pawley's avatar

Get fucked. “Knows more” my arse. Smith knows nothing about anything.

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Barbara With's avatar

thanks for continuing to prove my point. Keep talking! Doesn't seem to matter what you say!

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Gym+Fritz's avatar

This article brings to mind the term “self-induced hypnosis”. Murray is wrong about somethings and obviously biased. But the truth, if there is such a thing, lies somewhere between you and he - and is much closer to him.

Go sit in a quiet room for an hour, and visualize your mother, your daughters, your sister, your brother, your father, your son . . all being brutally killed, tortured, gang-raped, mutilated, and God knows what else, by the worst people in the world. Visualize this for only an hour, and then, quickly, tell me what would you do? Especially if there was no one else you could turn to for justice?

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Diamond Boy's avatar

G&F 👍

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Scotlyn's avatar

In this visualisation exercise, I can imagine myself as a Gazan, with my mother, my daughters, my sister, my brother, my father my son, all being brutaly killed, tortured, gang-raped, mutilated and God knows what... (I will not add "by the worst people in the world")... right?

Or, if not, why not?

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David Pawley's avatar

Because it’s a lie?

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MKnight's avatar

Wow. Invisible man, indeed.

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David Pawley's avatar

No, it’s not invisible. I see it and recognise it as what it is, i.e. the natural consequence justly deserved for fighting a war against Israel, not as a lie to justify my Jew-hatred.

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MKnight's avatar

Wow.

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Scotlyn's avatar

The"don't see this" suggestion whereof the OP speaks appears to be rather powerful.

Because it is bizarre indeed to be unable to believe that Gazans (and indeed Palestinians native to any part of the territory claimed by the state of Israel) have, in fact, been brutally killed, tortured, gang-raped, and/or mutilated in the course of the state of Israel's continued effort to remove and replace them.

Multiple instances of every one of these phenomena is extensively documented, often by Israelis, which means they do not have to be visualised, just read about. They have regularly, and with increasing frequency, occurred in every single decade going back to the 1920's and 1930's, when the future Israeli state's political leadership were gaining their pips in the terrorist zionist organisations active at that time.

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David Pawley's avatar

Of course, it’s the Jews who are at fault. There couldn’t possibly be any other explanation.

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Scotlyn's avatar

And why would you draw that conclusion? Are there no other possible conclusions available to you?

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David Pawley's avatar

Okay G+F, I did your little visualisation exercise.

I would destroy Gaza.

You did mean Hamas when you said the worst people in the world, correct?

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All Mouth And Trousers's avatar

Good article.

It's not hypnotism or clinging on to the post war consensus that drives Murray, it's the old pairing of money and power. He's a made man - Every books he brings out will be a best-seller, he'll get all the interviews on any show he wants, he'll be lauded and win prizes because he's on the right side, and the people backing him will pay handsomely if he can swing the needle their way.

I haven't watched the entire "debate" because it was too low-tier. Dave Smith could have crushed Murray by a few simple questions : Was the creation of Israel in 1947 by a group of European and Americans legal and justified, and if not how can you support its existence without redress to the people who had their land and property stolen?

Why is the invasion of the Ukraine wrong and the invasion of Palestine in 1947 right?

Did the people of Palestine want to be invaded to protect them from an autocratic and fascist government? What about the Don Bas?

I've yet to meet any person who can answer those questions satisfactorily, I don't think anyone can.

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Marion's avatar

Douglas Murray simply sees Muslims as a world wide threat, as he wrote in his book The Strange Death of Europe. Perhaps he is correct - they are certainly causing trouble in the U.K. where I live: a largely low iq people who ghettoise themselves and who are now voting for their fellow low iq men to become MPs - a handful at the last election now agitating for blasphemy laws. Whether Muslims will become a serious threat in my country, instead of being just fringe, rather squalid nastiness I don’t know. After all, they aren’t controlling anything, not even the importation of more and more of their fellows. If the U.K. becomes as much as a third world country as most Muslim countries (those that don’t have the benefit of oil fields) then I suspect the Muslims will leave - only being here for welfare benefits after all. So Douglas Murray loathes Islam, as thinking people should - nothing good has come from Islam, especially since they set up their ghettos in Europe. Why I decided to comment on this article is because no one ever asks where Murray was during Covid. His silence on that evil, fraudulent nonsense is profound, suggesting to me that he is simple part of the cabal, and yet he is against third world immigration to the west and agitates against Muslims….what does this suggest? That he picks and choses between cabal/elite views? Or the evils ones are turning against Muslims and Murray was their front runner on this? Who knows. But Murray could never have been part of any opposition to the evil that is swamping the world simply because he never said a word against the fake pandemic. And now, of course, he is showing his true fake and gay colours: he just loves warmonger Churchill and of course no doubt believes every word of the Great World War 2 Narrative as broadcast.

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Scotlyn's avatar

When I watched the Joe Rogan, Douglas Murray and Dave Smith episode, I kept waiting for Rogan to simply cut to the chase, and reply to Murray's allegation that "your guests are one-sided" with - "well, now you're here, you've got the mike, give us your side of the story, from the top... (no fair doing down what someone else said, just tell us, now, exactly why you support Israel and its actions, go!)"

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Simon Blanchard's avatar

The suffering of Gazans is truly awful so why don’t they just give the hostages back?

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Diamond Boy's avatar

Hurry up, expel them and get on with it. They should have done this 50 years ago. Bebe will be lionized for this.

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David Pawley's avatar

Gaza delenda est.

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Diamond Boy's avatar

They brought it on themselves. They’re a bunch of assholes. What kind of fighters hide amongst women and children? Losers.

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Diamond Boy's avatar

Cato the elder (googled it)

I thought I was going to get screamed at for writing that stuff. I even added the bit about Bebe to make it good and incendiary

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Diamond Boy's avatar

David, you’re missing an important author NS Lyons, the upheaval Substack: brilliant

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MKnight's avatar

Wow. No wonder America is losing sympathy quickly for the Israeli cause. 🙄

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Diamond Boy's avatar

Polite

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Paul's avatar

Sorry not sure why Darryl Coopers take on WW2 has any traction with anyone. Its a fair point perhaps to take a step back and try and look at WW2 genocides in the same way we do with other historical genocides, but this has been done by people like Niall Fergusson in his book 'War of the World'. Is anyone actually surprised that the Allied side in WW2 was deeply morally compromised - Evelyn Waugh wrote a trilogy of books about it. I think the darker side of his project is for those like David Irving who underneath their concern for the losses to civilisation of the destruction of Germany actually sympathise with the antisemitism.

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L.P. Koch's avatar

First, the motivations of an author don't necessarily negate all of their ideas, research and conclusions. Everyone has motivations and biases, and we need to keep those in mind anyway whenever we read a work of history.

Second, having listened to Cooper's work (such as Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem and Blacks and Jews), I don't share your characterization of his motivations at all.

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Gilgamech's avatar

Paul it sounds like you know about as much about Cooper’s views as Douglas Murray does. Like him you are attacking a caricature of a second hand report of an ad hominem. Not a credible position.

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Te Reagan's avatar

I think the Gazains need to be resettled. They are civilians caught in the middle. The human thing to do would be to resettle. That way these traumatized people can get on with their lives. Have a future for their children. Get help. Get away from the war. This has gone on for way too long.

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Stefano's avatar

Great essay! 🙏🏼

It's a thorny subject matter to approach.

I think the subject matter of blindspots and fundamentalists is worthwhile exploring further. The same issue crops up everywhere in the left vs right debates, religions, socio-economic-political spheres, etc.

It's a shame we can't seem to build societies and a human civilization based on truth seeking and allowing everyone to be wrong, self realization of mistaken ideas and changing appropriately. This is one of the foundational reasons why I don't see any course correction in sight (in general): it's like we'll just double down on erroneous ideas without giving space to those whose truth seeking has allowed them to find something better or truer. And obviously there's interest groups, money, identity, power, etc. But we're so caught up in many completely pointless debates that we're unable to course correct (living in harmony with nature vs climate change is another biggie)

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sonya's avatar

Wow how perfect I should read this today of all days as I have been struggling all day long to understand what it is that I am up against and why it is that I can’t seem to break through this wall of self delusion with any type of reality at all.

It is I who have been found 100% guilty of the crime of lacking in understanding, compassion and acceptance as I am not allowed to pick and choose what or whom I accept instead I must fully accept and embrace it all.

My firsthand experiences with some of my family members prove to me the trans mindset is anything but accepting and inclusive and preserving their ideology at all costs is all that matters to them, it takes precedence over everything else even including parents.

I am just an epic failure in their eyes and their judgement and contempt is extremely harsh and critical.

The trans movement is not a grassroots movement but another top down movement created to cause more division and it’s been very effective and successful in my case. It also works very well for population control as no procreation between a man and a woman also means no babies being conceived or born.

I can’t penetrate the wall despite laying my soul bare today in trying to do so and you have helped illuminate why they won’t so much as offer me even an inkling of credibility so you’ve helped me tonight Luc and I do thank you for it.

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Graham R. Knotsea's avatar

Murray is not hypnotized. He is simply a paid agent of Xaos.

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