Oh dear, seems I had been lucky not to have heard about them until recently (or maybe I'm living under a rock most of the time). But when I did hear about them I was so appalled that this called for a response. Really helps thinking things through, too!
If one were to steel-man their position one could argue that Lomborg’s Copenhagen Consensus is a form of EA but then you’d have reduced their position to simple cost / benefit analysis which the EA guys are adamant they are not doing. (One would also have to think that international aid isn’t just a huge grift).
But once you point out fairly basic concepts like subjective value / marginalism and the calculation problem EAers go “yes, but how about we ignore all that?”
I have not heard of this movement before, but from your description, it is par for the course for the ultra-reductionism which has overtaken the world, and hence dangerous. ps cool to find a reference to McGilchrist on substack!
Thanks for this Luc. You really are a brilliant thinker and you have a way with words of which the combination of the two is very valuable to me. I come away with a better understanding of what I only had vague ideas about before.
I think the word altruism itself might be the problem. The idea that self-interest is dirty and to be avoided is a perversion of the natural order. As you astutely observe, helping those in your community where you have some intrinsic motivation to guide efforts to help is a much more sensible approach. It is sensible because it isn't "pure" altruism. You can't disentangle self-interest from efforts to do good. The most annoying thing about EA to me is that these folks are definitely acting is self-interest, its just that they're not aware of it. With motivation being the master of reason, little is more dangerous than people that are out there absolutely convinced that they're selflessly doing good while totally unaware of their primary motivation to satisfy their own egos by seeing themselves as saviors of the less fortunate.
Well said! Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci preying on the African people’s poverty to easily entice them to be their human test subjects for their experimentation of various drugs and treatments and “vaccines.”
Oh man, it’s been years since I thought about these guys. The first time I heard about Roko’s basilisk I almost had an aneurysm.
Their hubristic belief in their ability to determine human needs on a global scale bears some resemblance to our beloved public health bureaucracy.
Oh dear, seems I had been lucky not to have heard about them until recently (or maybe I'm living under a rock most of the time). But when I did hear about them I was so appalled that this called for a response. Really helps thinking things through, too!
It was an excellent analysis.
If one were to steel-man their position one could argue that Lomborg’s Copenhagen Consensus is a form of EA but then you’d have reduced their position to simple cost / benefit analysis which the EA guys are adamant they are not doing. (One would also have to think that international aid isn’t just a huge grift).
But once you point out fairly basic concepts like subjective value / marginalism and the calculation problem EAers go “yes, but how about we ignore all that?”
Pass.
I have not heard of this movement before, but from your description, it is par for the course for the ultra-reductionism which has overtaken the world, and hence dangerous. ps cool to find a reference to McGilchrist on substack!
Thanks, Gary, and yes - McGilchrist's Matter With Things has had a big impact on me. I referenced it many times on this substack and also wrote a review of the first volume here: https://luctalks.substack.com/p/mcgilchrists-the-matter-with-things
Subscribed! McGilchrist's works informs many of many my writings too, and sometimes centres it, e.g. https://garysharpe.substack.com/p/trauma-at-the-institutional-level I am also a member of Channel McGilchrist!
Interesting - I have heard about Channel McGilchrist, maybe I should check it out.
Thanks for this Luc. You really are a brilliant thinker and you have a way with words of which the combination of the two is very valuable to me. I come away with a better understanding of what I only had vague ideas about before.
I think the word altruism itself might be the problem. The idea that self-interest is dirty and to be avoided is a perversion of the natural order. As you astutely observe, helping those in your community where you have some intrinsic motivation to guide efforts to help is a much more sensible approach. It is sensible because it isn't "pure" altruism. You can't disentangle self-interest from efforts to do good. The most annoying thing about EA to me is that these folks are definitely acting is self-interest, its just that they're not aware of it. With motivation being the master of reason, little is more dangerous than people that are out there absolutely convinced that they're selflessly doing good while totally unaware of their primary motivation to satisfy their own egos by seeing themselves as saviors of the less fortunate.
Well said! Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci preying on the African people’s poverty to easily entice them to be their human test subjects for their experimentation of various drugs and treatments and “vaccines.”